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Dear American people, don't you think the jobs of your policemen would be far less dangerous and stressful if not anyone could have a gun?

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Belgium, Leuven
289 comments
gilldo357
Police worry about people who have a gun and dont care about laws. Despite what you may have heard most of us dont have guns.
Breakfast
Well... according to the FBI's annual LEOKA report, only 27 police died in the line of duty in 2013. In contrast, police killed over 400 people which were considered "justifiable homicides". There are no statistics for innocent people killed by police. Being a police officer in America isn't nearly as dangerous as police are brainwashed to believe.
gilldo357
No. No it isnt. Yet is it possible it isnt as safe as you believe?
Breakfast
Absolutely, gilldo! It's probably somewhere between what I think and what police are brainwashed to think.
gilldo357
Bravo on a rational debate. I like your fact based argument and rational review.
Breakfast
I just wrote a report for a college English class, so I've got a few facts on this topic. Haha!
Veronica
I believe that less guns makes a safer space, but it seems like my fellow Americans are too afraid to give up their weapons.
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
I also strongly believe that you don't need a gun for freedom nor security. Having 2 toddlers, guns in the house would freak me out.
The Real Jesus 🎺
Why should one person's choice to not own a firearm be expanded into an imperative for all of us to make the same choice?
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
Some statistics that demonstrate that gun owners do have a safer life and more sense of freedom?
Croix Rennie
For the 50 Zillionth TIME! The shoot em up bang bang criminals won't be effected by this revocation of 2nd amendment rights because they obtained their guns the legal way. The only thing you'll do by outlawing firearms is make law-abiding citizen defenseless to the illegal gun toting maniacs. If you want to be the BIG PUSSY to lay out the red carpet for Martial Law go right ahead. Like seriously, do you know how many cases get solved simply because we can trace forensic evidence back to the purchase...and you wanna F that up because.......?
Aulia
Strict Australian gun laws since 1996 reduced deaths by firearms significantly http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/14/america-mass-murder-australia-gun-control-saves-lives
Croix Rennie
Aulia you do know that even with their strict gun laws...that Australia still has the unreasonable need to ban violent video games and media. If your citizens have no guns to commit violent crimes...what the uses of banning games like Saints Row? Do you really want to live a grossly censored country?
Bestrd
Croix, stats are not on your side. Shootings are rare where guns are harder to obtain
B Samson [WildFyre]
There is a difference between having one legally and illegally. Fact is almost all crimes are with illegally obtained guns. I am for getting rid of THOSE guns.
CV41
60% of gun deaths are suicide and those are primarily legally owned. Sorry that it's a bit off topic.
Pork Chop
Nobody in America is trying to outlaw guns. Gun control advocates are asking for stricter regulations against assault rifles, closing the gun show loophole, and preventing the mentally ill from obtaining an arsenal. But each effort is stopped by the w-monied NRA spreading falsehoods about how the scary government is going to take away good (white) peoples' rights to defend themselves.
CV41
The NRA was once a gun owners organization now it's the lobbying arm ofct
CV41
Of the gun industry.
Croix Rennie
Okay...I never really heard it like this before Pork Chop. I don't really own a gun, but I wouldn't to lose the right too. But there is no reason to have a damn Assault Rifle to "hunt dear". Have you seen these WeTodds doing open carries in fast food restaurants. That'll be a good reason to make things stricter.
RobG
Breakfast - Why do you think American police are brainwashed?
Croix Rennie
It's completely asinine that we pay most officers to sit in a patrol car all day...and then on top of that to write us ridiculous high tickets so that they can meet the quota.
Gymi
While I do not own and am not an advocate for assault weapons, any semi automatic hunting rifle with a caliber of 30 or above is a way more devastating weapon than any assault rifle. Most assault rifles have a caliber of. 223 or 9 millimeter or 10 millimeter. 38 caliber and above semi automatic hunting rifles are way more devastating then these assault rifles. But I don't hear of anyone trying to limit the sale or banned the use of hunting rifles, I guess they just don't like the way assault rifles look.
Gymi
*30 calibre.
Gymi
*30 caliber
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
Curious, what exactly is an "assault rifle"?
Pork Chop
I fear this argument will now get bogged down with the minutiae of what is and what isn't an assault rifle.
Croix Rennie
Joey assault rifles are your military graded automatic weapons like M4s and Ak-47...you know the shit you see on Call of Duty
S*v*n of Nin*: T*rtiary Adj*nct of *nimatrix 01
Yeah this thread is way off topic but what do you expect from US Americans? They love their guns and many of them have no idea of the reason they have the right to bear arms.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
My point is (this would be easier with pictures) I could show a picture of a bone stock rifle and people would say that it's a "hunting rifle", change out a wooden stock for a black collapsible one, throw a rail on it with a scope, flashlight, laser and all the " tacticool" gear and all of a sudden it's a scary assault rifle.
liberalism is a mental disorder
Yes we do love our guns and always will. I'm going to the range today!
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
OK, back to the original post. Yes, I think it would be far less dangerous and stressful for police if not everyone could have a gun. Just like in Mexico... And it seems to work so well for them.
CV41
Those guns in Mexico come from the US.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
We can't even keep people in prison from getting contraband or breaking the law, you show me a way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals that doesn't affect law abiding citizens and we'll talk.
CV41
That's a high standard that is unachievable. If all laws were required to have no effect on law abiding citizens murder would be legal. It's a bit of a strawman argument but it works in this instance.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
My guns are to keep myself and family safe as well as my government in check.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
Criminals don't follow laws, that's their thing...
Croix Rennie
I think Michael Jackson had the right idea when he made the gangsters knife fight in his "Beat It" video. Choreographed killing is the solution to all of this gun right banter.
CV41
Joey those are tired old tropes. I'm going to end here. Thanks for the conversation.
fury
Poverty elimination, drug legalization, and universal healthcare with an effective mental healthcare system will do more to reduce tensions between police and community than guns.
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
400 killings justifiable homicides... than what do you need courts and judges for? First kill, than see if it was legit... strange strategy.
liberalism is a mental disorder
Average response time for police 'once the call is placed' 10 minutes
Croix Rennie
I recommend everybody watch "End of Watch" on Netflix...for a person like myself whose usually wary and apathetic towards the law, I damn near wanted to be a cop after watching that movie.
Tyler
American police are brainwashed because they believe they are in constant danger. They are more likely to be killed from not wearing there seatbelt then in the line of duty.
Tyler
If you take a concealed carry course in America they actually state that if you are in a situation where you do pull, make sure they are dead. Legally it's easier...
Croix Rennie
UNSUBSCRIBING
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
You should never draw your weapon as a civilian unless absolutely necessary, not just if you're scared... When you understand what actually justifies drawing your weapon in the first place it makes sense. You're basically saying "it was their life or mine".
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
Out of context I agree, it sounds horrible.
Tyler
I sat through the class, and it really made me think about justifying carrying. I have my card and own several guns, I just don't believe it carrying anymore. Why risk escalading situations simply by having a gun? Get pulled over one night for speeding and see how quickly the officer gets nervous.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I have a lot of respect for you, Tyler. It's not an easy decision to make and a lot of people don't realize the amount of responsibility it takes to carry. It's not just about being able to pass the classes. Stay safe out there.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
In California one of the first things you have to say to an officer is that you have a ccw and where the weapon is. But I totally understand your point.
Tyler
I've found out its easier and feels alot safer to just not say a thing. You say those few words and they usually take a few steps back. But that's my luck, I have a buddy that open carries all the time, and barely gets a bat of the eye. Maybe it's im a scary 130lbs guy. Lol
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
For me, it is so hard to understand this obsession about the right to have a gun: you assume everyone might just want to overtake you, the danger could be right around the corner. How is that a symptom of freedom? To me, freedom is a feeling no one is trying to harm you and not having to fear situations escalating.
Tyler
Yeah I don't see any need for to own one. I just like shooting, just like fireworks, sure don't need them just enjoy the hell out of blowing shit up.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
It's about self protection, having the ability to defend your life if need be. When you're in trouble you call someone with a gun, why not carry and train yourself to avoid being a victim?
liberalism is a mental disorder
People are murdered around the world within a few seconds. For me it's the choice to allow myself to be a helpless victim or a fighter. I won't allow another person the decide my life span or that of my family. If THEY CHOOSE me or my family as a target for theft, rape, assault or murder then I'm not going to let it be easy for them. The crimes that occur in America occur all around the world. We don't have a monopoly on violent crime but we do believe it's everyone's right to meet that threat with an equal but hopefully with a more powerful defensive weapon.
Tyler
I live in a town of 900, my keys are in my ignition, and doors unlocked. Come grab a beer,
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I think the main problem is that people think we're itching to kill someone which couldn't be further from the truth. I honestly hope I never ever have to draw my weapon let alone take a life. But if it's between my life, my child's or my wife's and someone that's threatening them? I am willing to live with the guilt and heartache it would bring to protect them.
Batman
The jobs of the Gestapo were much safer in 1939, I'll give you that...
B Samson [WildFyre]
Criminals can't and shouldn't have guns. If someone is a law abiding citizen there is NO reason they shouldn't be able to carry a gun for hunting, protection, a job or just for fun.
Tyler
Yes, but how do you separate criminal intentions? Most crimes are committed by regular people making bad decisions in bad situations.
SouthPhilly
America has to many guns. It is sad. This will never change. We will run out of people before we run or of guns.
Slylock
I never understood why so many are against the most important civil right of all, to defend ones life in the best way possible.
Tyler
That's never been the issue
Slylock
It is by proxy.
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
Defend your life is something different than defending it with a deadly thing which is pulled too often and with a result too severe. What's the cause of your mistrust in other people, wanting to harm you?
Slylock
There is none. That fallacy is getting a bit old at this point. It is better to be prepared with the ability to defend ones life than not.
Slylock
Quite possibly. Thr hope is that it is a deterrent, but if you must take a life to defend yours then so be it. I firmly believe in NAP.
Tyler
The issue I believe stated by the host is more or less about the escalation of fear.
Slylock
I get that, and I concur that is it a problem. I more strongly feel that people should be able to defend their lives in the best way possible.
Tyler
But where does it stop? Isn't that thee reason we are having issues with our police? Everyone has guns, so they need assault rifles. Everyone has assault rifles, they need armored vehicles. Where do we go from here?
SouthPhilly
We go to a militirized police state sadly.
Tyler
What's the best way to defend yourself?
Tyler
So your saying this fear mongering and escalading situation isn't something to try and stop?
Slylock
That would completely depend on the situation, obviously. I never said that, or implied that. I admit I do not have a solution, but I do not believe taking away a persons ability to defend themselves is the solution. I am all for attempting to resolve it and am open to possibilities, as well as cordial discussion of the issue.
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
Well, in our society, with a nearly complete abscence of firearms, we don't feel any need "to protect ourselves" with guns. And no, we're not sitting duck. Please explain me how this is possible.
B Samson [WildFyre]
If as you say we don't need guns to defend ourselves from criminals, then why do we need fire alarms and extinguishers? Heck, we could just outlaw fires...
SouthPhilly
That is a lame argument.
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
Unless you figurate in shows with funny home videos, fire extinguishers don't kill.
SouthPhilly
There is no way to fix America's obsession with guns. We are broken beyond repair and I do not see a way to fix it except a complete rebuild.
CV41
Sodapop using that logic we should issue flamethrowers to fight fire. Same logic as using guns to stop gun violence. Also fire deaths are less than 10% of gun deaths in the US.
Slylock
The crime problem is probably also much, much worse in the U.S. than whatever country you are referring to. Crime does not go down with a reduction in firearms, it shifts.
SouthPhilly
If America could increase education especially in our inner cities we could cut crime in half in a generation.
B Samson [WildFyre]
Hmmm since just about every mass murder was committed in gun free zones you may want to rethink your logic.
Tyler
Crime is at an all time low in America. And has been going down for years
B Samson [WildFyre]
@CV41 fire fighters sometimes use flame throwers to fight fires. They create a fire break in brush to divert or control wildfires.
B Samson [WildFyre]
If you guys don't like guns so much consider them like abortions. If you don't want one, don't have one.
B Samson [WildFyre]
Got a link Tyler? Or at least an example?
Tyler
We've settled on the fact that's not the issue.
SouthPhilly
Owning guns is not the problem. The propensity to use them is our problem.
CV41
Do you honestly believe we could bring down fire deaths if more people had flamethrowers? The smoke jumpers that actually use them are highly trained in their use unlike the average gun owner.
SouthPhilly
Not to mention they are very specialized tools for very unique situations.
Slylock
Crime is certainly going down in the U.S. Education and socio-economic status, I believe, will be keys to lowering it even further.
YourName
No because criminals will always have the guns whether they are illegal or not.
Dennis
The patriots and their guns xD
Bestrd
Sodapop you can't compare guns with abortions. Guns mostly affect others, abortion affects yourself
YourName
And the dead child
S*v*n of Nin*: T*rtiary Adj*nct of *nimatrix 01
Oh, you're one of those. Do you also advocate for better access to welfare for families with children?
Tyler
All aboard the off topic train!
S*v*n of Nin*: T*rtiary Adj*nct of *nimatrix 01
So you care about a child's life up until the moment it's actually born. Got it.
Bestrd
It's a 2cm fetus at 10 weeks, not a developed being
Tyler
Choo-choo!
YourName
Poisoned that was you at one point. I'm still glad your hear to have a chance to voice your opinion.
The Real Jesus 🎺
Non-stop service to.. somewhere we weren't intended to go :)
Bestrd
Believe me, I wouldn't care much about it if I was killed at that time. Ch-ch-ch-ch choo choo
SouthPhilly
I have a window seat on this train with drink service!
Tyler
OooOoo what you drinking?
The Real Jesus 🎺
Those of you on the left side of your car can see a beautiful view of the original conversation as we pass by
SouthPhilly
Mezcal and PBR. Slumming it today.
Tyler
Damnit I'm on the right. :/
Tyler
PBR is one of those beers I just can't hop on the bandwagon with.
SouthPhilly
Nothing good ever happens on the right side. We always have room on the left for more!
Tyler
Finding empty left-side seat...
Dennis
Search for a seat near a charger thingie for your phone ;)
Matt
A man with a shotgun stopped Sydney in its tracks for 16 hours before he killed two people. He wouldn't have stopped Houston Texas for 5 mins with the firepower he had. I'll keep my guns thank you.
Henningha
Matt. You know that's BS. It's not like the police in Australia don't access to firepower.
Matt
The police, yes. But he would have been taken out by a little old lady named Thelma in TX.
SouthPhilly
America love of guns and Jesus will be our downfall.
Dennis
So now what? A Yeey for Thelma that she is able to shoot random people?
Pork Chop
Remember all those mass shootings that were stopped by armed citizens?
Matt
They all happened in areas where there was strict gun control.
SouthPhilly
Like Texas? Belltower shootings back in the 60's.
The Real Jesus 🎺
Crazy people will be crazy, if not guns then knives, if not knives then bombs, if not bombs then cars, if not cars then bare hands.
Henningha
I rather crazy people have knifes, sticks and stones than a automatic rifle.
The Real Jesus 🎺
Very few people have automatic rifles, those who do have payed way too much for it to let it fall into a crazy persons hands
Slylock
And I can't think of one crime commited in the U.S. with an automatic rifle in an extremely long time
SouthPhilly
Bah LA bank robbery. Two shooters both with automatic AK-47. Happened within a decade or so ago.
SouthPhilly
North Hollywood Shootout.
Slylock
The 1997 shootout? The one where the guns were modified illegally and not purchased that way?
Slylock
Yeah, thats the only one I can think of in the past 20 years
Coleco
Ooo the debate
SouthPhilly
You can buy a conversion kit to turn a semi automatic AK into full auto. There is no need for non military personnel to have assault rifles. You don't hunt with them. They have 1 use, they are designed to kill people.
CV41
Skylock you made an assertion SouthPhilly refuted your claim and you reframed the debate.
Slylock
I made my claim with that incident in mind, but couldn't remember exactly where it happened. How is that refuting it?
The Real Jesus 🎺
Um no. They can be used for sport or for shooting varmint. They are much more manageable for smaller framed men and women to shoot. You cannot assume that everyone who buys a gun has intent or desire to kill. I will acknowledge the full auto LA firefight in 97, but even in places like London, England where not only full auto guns are outlawed, but a majority of firearms outlawed, full auto guns were used in a murder. Taking guns from law abiding citizens is a feel good measure that adresses 0% of the core issue. http://bearingarms.com/machine-gun-used-in-london-birthday-murder/. The point of my statement was that crazy people will be crazy, if they want to kill mass amounts of people they will do so, I point to the Atlanta Olympoc games as a case in point, Oklahoma city as another. Will we ban pipes and fertilizer next?
CV41
You claim no crimes committed with automatic weapons in an extremely long time. You are presented with an example that refutes that claim. You say that doesn't count and add more stipulations.
Henningha
The point was not the rifle, and you know that. Swap with any handheld gun.
SouthPhilly
What states is hunting with assault rifles legal?
Slylock
I would disagree, that a citizen has every right, an equal right, to any small arms that may be used against them when either intended to harm them physically or in defense against their government.
The Real Jesus 🎺
I can shoot varmint with whatever the heck I want to. You wouldn't hunt large game with an AR because the 223 isnt powerful enough for a humane kill. It is good for nasty moles and groundhogs though
Slylock
CV41: go back to my previous statement. He brought up the exact incident I was thinking of. Again, how does that refute what I said?
The Real Jesus 🎺
I am with Skylock. The root purpose of second ammendment is not hunting, it is another level of checks and balances within the country, the guns give legitimate power to the people to reign in a tyrannical govt. We are a young country and we cannot take future generation's right to protect against tyranny because everything is well and good now.
SouthPhilly
So you are justifying an assault rifle so you can kill small critters? Really? So why should those of us who live in inner cities have these weapons? There is no reason for any one to own these weapons. A 22 can shoot varmint just add well.
SouthPhilly
The second amendment is misconstrued and twisted by the NRA.
Slylock
I think he was giving a reason, not the only reason.
CV41
It's an example of a crime committed with an automatic weapon committed. I agree automatic weapons are a statistically insignificant addition to our gun violence but when you speak absolutely it's easy to refute.
Slylock
If I was speaking absolutely I would have said never.
The Real Jesus 🎺
If you want to make laws in your city, go ahead. But dont make the mistake of thinking everyone shares your lifestyle. People have guns for a variety of reasons and I am not ready to make decisions for other people. I dont view myself as wise enough or arrogant enough to make decisions on other peoples behalf
CV41
Uncle Slylock. It's an insignificant point.
The Real Jesus 🎺
South Philly, should discretion be legislated? Since you can say what gun I can own, can I tell you what coffee to drink or what car to drive? Maybe how many kids I'll let you have or how much land I will let you buy..
Slylock
As is yours. You are arguing semantics. My point remains that it hasn't happened in an extremely long time. The word extremely was used with news cycles for this type of thing happening. Could I have used a better word such a long? Sure, but it's semantics at this point.
CV41
I've already surrendered.
SouthPhilly
Are you allowed to own nerve gas? How about a small nuclear bomb? There are reasons that the rest of the world does not share the vocal minority love of firearms. They have seen the horror of violence that can be perpetrated with them. One day reason shall prevail until then enjoy your exotic weapons. I am out.
Slylock
The moment you are able to disarm all police forces as well as armies of their firearms I will consider the argument. Consider, not give in to it. And no, I limit my belief to small arms only. The only thing unreasonable is not allowing someone the ability to defend themselves with proportional force.
Coleco
... keeps going n' going. Ok you're all right. No move on to swiping.
ttompost
Hear hear.
Matt
I'm gonna say something and it isn't going to make me popular. If we would give more criminals the death penalty we wouldn't have so many repeat offenders. If you use a gun to commit a crime against another person the you die. If you rape someone or molest a child, then you die. If you break in my house at 3 am, you are gonna die. Outlawing guns isn't going to stop people from doing bad things. It at the very best, will only stop gun crimes. That's the very best it will do in theory or dreamland whatever you call it. The monsters are real, and when the bad guy know you don't have a gun, that is just gonna make him more dangerous. But the bigger point is that guns in the hands of good people aren't dangerous. Anyone who thinks outlawing guns is gonna stop evil people from owning illegal guns is just dreaming.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
^Truth. For the most part, I completely agree.
Tyler
But also wouldn't that escalate minor crimes? If you get the death penalty for breaking into a house, it would be safer for the criminal to murder that whole family to reduce the risk of leaving witnesses?
Pork Chop
I wish there was a way to unsubscribe from a thread.
ttompost
Pork Chop, there is: hit the three dots.
Tyler
Beat me to it ^
CV41
I'm anti death penalty but I would support severe penalties for criminal use of a firearm. Well meaning citizens could get caught up in that net for use of their weapon if over zealous prosecutors decide to make an example.
observer71
This is true, there are to many guns here, but police are killing people that don't have guns.
Slylock
I typically don't like having a second set if laws against something that is already illegal. The method or reason shouldn't really matter, should it?
CV41
Slylock there are already enhanced penalties for crimes committed with firearms in many jurisdictions. I say ratchet them up.
Slylock
I am aware. Just not overly fond of them. The extra punishment for the why and how of a crime don't seem to deter anyone and, frankly, I find them rather silly. I understand the desire for it though.
Contagiosum
Dear Belgian person, your waffles are killing more Americans than any guns!
Matt
Now I want some waffles. Thanks a lot. :( I miss IHOP and Waffle House.
Dennis
Lol. Interesting that Americans r more addicted to those waffles than the Belgians them self.
S*v*n of Nin*: T*rtiary Adj*nct of *nimatrix 01
Who would actually eat at IHOP? Just skip a step and eat some diarrhea.
J'accuse
Ive read every post thus far, and it's interesting, as I'm not an American. In that sense, my oppinion probably isnt fair, however. Tyler, you speak a lot of sense. Joey, I can fly respect your view, although considering the original question of the card, I believe your view is incorrect. Matt. There is condistently statistics showing that you're factually invorrect in almost everything you're commenting on. I'd therefore lime to suggest an American invention to proove why your constitutional right to arms, is indeed speaking for the acvusation above, based on 40years of armament experience leading only to a loss-loss for everyone. As in tbe Cold War Game-Theory. It will always lead to a loose-loose. Be scared of that. Ironically, Plague users, and you cannot see how violence feed violence, like a virus, lile and infection, like a Plague. It is very easy. Guns are made for killing. The more guns, the more killings.
treats plague like whisper
Anyone can't have a gun... Shooting tend to happen in places with tighter gun control
treats plague like whisper
Shootings #autocorrect
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
J'acuse you completly got it and you got my respect for such a comment
infinit
Yes, everyone having guns solves the problem nicely.
Halffiction
Yet in Canada, a high percentage of people have guns and very few people are shot. It says more about how Americans behave. Lots of guns reduce crime. No guns reduces crime. It's when you have some guns that it doesn't work because those guns always wind up with the people who have the worst reasons to use thrm.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I hate to break the news to everyone, but there is a massive illegal immigration problem in the U.S. and they're not all here "just trying to make a better life for their families". So when you think about it, just because it's happening in the U.S. doesn't mean it's all U.S. citizens. It's the people in America, not just Americans that are the problem.
observer71
Most developed countries, except the US, have tighter gun control laws. The murder rate from shootings is miniscule compared to the US. This is simply because there are to many guns in the US
observer71
Cornfed... every industrial nation has an immigration "problem". There are massive numbers of people fleeing violence and extreme poverty. Just remember the next time you talk about immigrants that everyone in the US is an immigrant. We all came from somewhere else.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I think it has much more to do with the general attitude and culture (or lack thereof) people are living in. If you doubled or tripled the amount of guns in one of the countries you say has far less deaths per year, do you really think crime and/or murder is just going to skyrocket?
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
Yes, but I'm not talking about just immigrants. People always forget about the "illegal" part... If you come here legally I welcome anyone with open arms, but if your very first action coming here is against the laws of this country you do not deserve to be here. There's a process for a reason.
observer71
I don't think it would skyrocket but it would definatly go up. A two year old pulled a gun out of their mothers purse in Walmart yesterday and accidently shot and killed her.
observer71
I agree with you assessment of our culture which is more of a reason to regulate guns.
observer71
We have an irresponsible, violent, entitlement culture.
Agent Smith
Then shame on the mother for keeping a loaded pellet gun within a child's ability to retrieve and use it? Tragic, but 100% avoidable had she any common sense not to (presumably) keep a loaded pellet gun in her purse.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
You are absolutely right, that was completely irresponsible of the mother. Who in their right mind would leave a loaded gun, unsupervised, next to a toddler? It's sad, but it's because the woman was careless, not because the gun existed.
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
And if the only problem is the amount of guns in the U.S. then why don't you believe that things would be just as bad anywhere else with the same amount?
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
Regulating guns does absolutely nothing but prevent good people from protecting themselves. The criminals already have them, they're out there. Preventing new sales or taking them from registered owners does not make anyone safer whatsoever. I will go so far as to say that IF somehow all firearms can be taken from every criminal first, I would be more open to the idea of gun restrictions. But it's never ever going to happen, so the logical thing to do is fight fire with fire. Don't let yourself or your loved ones be a victim. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Agent Smith
If the government pays me $50,000 per 'assault rifle,' $35,000 per hunting rifle, $30,000 per handgun, $25,000 per shotgun, and $5.00 per round, I would maybe consider the offer. Maybe. If our politicians can be bought and sold, hell maybe I can be too if the price is right ;)
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
^Those numbers are probably closer the the actual prices I've paid compared to how much I told my wife I paid hahaha
The Real Jesus 🎺
Entitlement culture can also mean you feel entitled to tell me what I can and cannot own though.
Heff
A gun is just another weapon. Of course gun violence is lower in countries with gun bans. Traffic accidents are pretty low in Antarctica. The problem many seem to miss is that our society is generating very angry/sad/fearful people who want to murder folks. Did a gun ban stop Timothy McVeigh or Ted Kazynski?
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
Nope but they make it difficult to be someone like them
Roadtripper
Real Jesus if you re so worried about selfdsfense go teach them kids some karate. If you really think you have 100% complete choice over everyhing you choose you are fool to believe that. Many things are laid out and I think we can all agree that a person Without a gun cant shoot a person. Which is a pretty high cause of death in the states.
peaches
We shouldn't take away guns from people that's just a rash and obviously ignorant solution to the problem. We should have more strict gun laws and 5 year mental check ups and make the gun permits more expensive so not every one can get one for such a cheap price
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
Mental check ups seem to be a very good idea
peaches
It seems like the ones committing the mass shooting usually have snapped mentally
peaches
See that's much more reasonable then "let's take away their guns"
The Real Jesus 🎺
Peaches is always a beacon of reason 👍
peaches
I try Jesus
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
Peaches i spread it already in other cards and everyone is happy about it 😋
peaches
Never said that Kris. I said tahrs the price. If you raise the price it will deter people from buying them. Which would decrease the amount of crazy gym owners
observer71
There is so much rhetoric and twisted logic about this issue. Why can everyone be more open minded, less polarized, and more honest.
Agent Smith
Also remember this: some of our states are the same size as some of Europe's countries. The United States are geographically and culturally a very diverse and widespread nation. What's good for the Goose is not always good for the Gander. But I do see that you all have a point. I'd like to see some statistics about the socioeconomic status of most of these victims and those convicted. I almost guarantee that the crimes disproportionately occur to those/by those of lower socioeconomic status.
The Oracle
Too late now, you can't recall 100million guns.
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
Not the guns are the problem the people who cant handle them are the problem
Tyler
Side topic here... What does everyone think about what the NYPD is doing right now?
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
What do you mean?
Agent Smith
Yeah, you mind explaining that a bit?
Tyler
In response to the ambush shooting, and protesting the mayor they are only making arrests they have to.
Tyler
94% drop in driving offenses, 66% total drop.
peaches
That's fucked but it beats them going on strike
Heff
There are many places in the states that are so sparse, cops actually encourage citizens to carry firearms since a 911 call may take upwards of 30 minutes for cops to arrive. This is case in my county.. Weld. It is 4000 sq up to 100 mi wide.
Tyler
If you got the chance read that article, is an interesting read.
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
😂 i'd wait how this will evolve it seems to be ...interresting
juli/Beta-Wolf🌙
Fail i meant that i will wait
Tyler
That's why I'm curious on this... What will happen from here?
peaches
Hopefully it will blow over and the cops go back to doing their job
Slylock
The cops in NYC are doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons.
Agent Smith
Somebody's got to be the first to change a process. Maybe they're onto something, only being peacekeepers and enforcing laws for the sake of public safety instead of quotas. I'd like to see if the number of car accidents shifts if the NYPD keeps it up, and my guess is it won't go up all that much.
Tyler
But they are only doing it to hit back at the mayor, if that was the intentions ^ they would be heroes.
Agent Smith
Exactly. Doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons as Slylock said 😊
Tyler
I really hope the powers at be, can see the good they are accidentally doing and make an example out of it.
Agent Smith
Exactly. Some interesting shifts are happening in the US right now... makes you wonder where it'll go from here.
lizard queen
I actually just sat and read this entire thread! Bravo people! Except for a couple of side lines this conversation was quite mature.
J'accuse
▲▲▲
Roadtripper
So Peaches, you would they give guns only to the rich and prospering people? I think some americans have seen too many John Wayne movies. Newsflash to America: the Wild West has ended about a century ago.
peaches
Never said raise the price for only the rich. If you actually read it I said raise the price like they did for tax on cigarettes to deter people from buying them
Agent Smith
Obviously, peaches has never met a shooting sports enthusiast ;)
peaches
Yeah but those guys aren't gonna go and shoot up a school. They actually know about guns and proper safety haha
Slylock
Can we tax voting to discourage the uninformed as well?
peaches
Well you see they did that then all the "uniformed" rioted so no u can't anymore
Slylock
So if imposing a fee the discourage a right is wrong, then...
Slylock
Ugh. ^to discourage
peaches
It's called a sin tax champ and as long as you don't say "oh yeah uh we are just gonna do this so all of you poor people can't get guns" then you are fine. It's the idea behind well it's an expensive item so treat it like one
Slylock
You can't justify a sin tax on a right. Sin taxes apply to things that are not rights. By raising taxes on it you are effectively limiting a right.
peaches
That is true but the right is protect your self "the right the bear arms" you can still tax the object that may apply to that right because it's still a product
Agent Smith
There are already tax stamps in place for fully automatic firearms, as well as suppressed firearms. Don't go taxing hunting rifles and handguns as well.
Agent Smith
I just noticed I said "as well" twice in as many sentences. Fak. I will resist the urge to delete and retype it.
peaches
Nah hunting rifles are fine and hand guns it takes a lot to get one
Part Time Legend
Tried to go through the comments, but when someone wrote "I have my guns to keep the government in check" it was all over. I'm laughing so hard. DOIN' A DAMN GOOD JOB THERE BUDDY!! :'D
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
You obviously don't understand the true meaning of the second amendment. Things could be far worse than they are.
The Real Jesus 🎺
CM is right. You can't over throw the govt just because you disagree with policy. Things would have to get pretty serious for the average gun owner to feel justified using their weapons in this way. If they tried to totally shut down free speech for example or severely change our rights or liberties as citizens it may be considered.
Slylock
The only Jesus I agree with hit the nail on the head to my thought process when I said that. That it needs to be explained is quite baffling to me.
Roadtripper
Well luckily its not my country.. and if some american ever tries to point a gun at me I am going at him kung fu style 😲😉
Agent Smith
^a sane American wouldn't point his or her gun at you, unless you appeared as a legitimate threat and the action was in self defense. What happens to you guys overseas when you are being attacked by a person with weapon (knife/shank, gun, bare hands)? Do you just lie there and take it? Honest question, no sarcasm.
Roadtripper
We live or die ;) actually its not even a joke. A guy was killed during the new years eve, with a knife. These things happen, and I wonder if guns wpuld have made a difference. I have been in clubs where fights broke loose, back then I was somehow confident enough to step in. Even if i didnt know any of them and they where much bigger. In some cases quick and fast reasoning can deflate the situation. But not everyone is lucky and it could have ended quite differently. Like I said shit happends, but I'd rather get a little beating than a bullet through the head
Roadtripper
Talking about sane americans, yesterday i was watching Top Gear in the states as they went through Alabama.. those people there didnt look too sane
Roadtripper
*the people they met* i dont want to generalize
Agent Smith
(Slightly off topic, but I'll bite) Why would they show the "normal" Americans? It wouldn't make for interesting television. [Although, the deep south is where the highest percentage of our religious fundamentalists and hyper-conservatives live -- that much is true and you can look up statistics on it online. Interesting how it correlates with obesity, lack of education, poverty, and domestic violence.]
Roadtripper
The last part was more like joke. It just telly, but still when I saw these people raging I do really keep asking myself.. should everyone just be able to get a gun? But if you're happy then I'm happy ;)
Boaty McBoatfaceAuthor
The chances of being attacked by a gun are quite small because guns are rare, but of course we also have violence. But I sense that people tend to easily get offended, feel insulted and situations seem to ascalate quickly. Even with people who have had a mental checkup (eg aggression in traffic).
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I can't speak for the rest of the states in this example but here in California, more specifically the valley where I live; If someone has gone through all the paperwork, fees and classes to carry a firearm legally, you better believe that they will be the first to deescalate a situation or walk away if possible. A firearm is a last resort to protect your life, not something to waive around if someone makes fun of your mother so they'll "take it back".
Roadtripper
But if you can do that. Why need the gun? How often does it happen that a situation calls for a 'last resort'?
Roadtripper
Cuz I can run like hell too. Costs some energy but no.life is wasted. But I can understand thats not the 'american way'
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
I'd rather have a condom and not need it, than need it and not have it... Same principal. I'm not saying that every person will be attacked in their life but it absolutely does happen and you can't always talk your way out of it or run. Many legal carrying citizens have saved countless lives during armed robberies. It's a worst case scenario nobody wants to happen but some are only alive today because they had a gun to defend themselves.
vonj
I don't have a gun. But I do think that this nations citizens should be armed, to protect ourselves from the invasion of our fellow citizens, foreign countries, and our own government should they exercise immoral practice. But the most likely would be the absolute former
⬇Cpt. Cornfed Motherfucker
What's to say you won't be shot in the back while trying to run? And if by "the American way" you mean standing up for yourself, then you are correct.
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