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Is patriotism a good thing?

When does patriotism turn into obedience or the end of critical thinking?

Can being critical of the state be considered patriotic, and if so, how does this compare with the more popular form of patriotism (no I in team)?

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United States, Seattle
78 comments
God.
Good how? For soldiers? It's fantastic. For the nation? Excellent. For you as an individual? Nah.
21
B Samson [WildFyre]
How about for a union, like a Euro union?
2
mallepietje
B Samson [WildFyre], are there even people that are patriotic about the EU???
13
B Samson [WildFyre]
mallepietje, yes. Look at them harping about the metric system or guns. I guess because you can take a trolley from one end of Malta to another they feel you should be able to ride one from the Florida keys to Wales Alaska.
2
Philo 0316
B Samson [WildFyre], people support metric because metric makes sense, not because it's used by EU.
12
mallepietje
B Samson [WildFyre], supporting a specific subject doesn't make you patriotic.
3
B Samson [WildFyre]
Philo 1202, except in the context used implying the EU is somehow better for banning one system over another. Freedom actually makes more sense than banning something that a few find inconvenient. What's next, banning uses of certain languages for efficiencies sake? Or banning migrants because of violence? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5294141/German-city-BANS-new-refugees-amid-anti-migrant-violence.html That's wrong. No wonder why they would rather go to the US instead of Germany. http://news.gallup.com/poll/153992/150-million-adults-worldwide-migrate.aspx
2
mallepietje
B Samson [WildFyre], seriously, wut?
11
flack
B Samson [WildFyre], do you support those things because they are american? Or because you agree with them? you'll find british people harping on about metric and we invented the bloody imperial system. brits will harp on about not having guns in every cupboard and we clearly aren't all pro EU... And nobody cares about trolleys...
3
Philo 0316
B Samson [WildFyre], freedom to use imperial system? That's the first time hearing that argument, and I hope it will be the last. Are you serious?
4
fj_x
Personally I like to use cubits.
5
B Samson [WildFyre]
flack, trolleys and trains are the same basic thing. The main difference is how they ride. When used to justify one country over the other, it can easily be considered patriotism. And no, if a person is born somewhere, that's there home. If you feel otherwise, feel free to explain.
2
B Samson [WildFyre]
Philo 1202, so, you seriously need a bureaucrat to think for you? What's next, laws on how to tie your shoe? People in the US can used imperial measurements or metric or make up their own if they choose. Heck, fj_x uses cubits. Do you have any actual reasoning why you feel people should be told how what to think? How to measure speed, distance etc? The standards exist and people can choose. If someone using a different system of measurement gives you a headache, that's your problem, not anyone else's.
5
Philo 0316
B Samson [WildFyre], *we* as a society needs a standardized unit system. There is little benefit outside of literature for imperial units, in comparison to metric. It makes sense to incentivize using metric system to phase out imperial measuring system. There is absolutely no nationalism of any kind involved in arguments for metric. Sticking to imperial on the other hand...
5
B Samson [WildFyre]
Philo 1202, that's your opinion. BTW, it wasn't the metric system that put men on the moon and got them back safely. If you feel a need to be told what and how to do things, that's your problem. Not the rest of the world's.
2
Owen Meany
B Samson [WildFyre], it was math, I believe. It would be interesting to know if they did the math in metrics as most scientists do.
2
B Samson [WildFyre]
Owen Meany, both systems as well as others were used. So math can be done on both systems? Seems like things worked pretty good the way they are in the US.
2
Viqueen
B Samson [WildFyre], this has been discussed already, but the damned imperial system is very much a problem for the rest of the world as soon as you are trying to sell something in the US. The Brits can strangely enough manage in metric already quite alright. But for the US you need to convert all the measurements, and often design an entirely new package as well. By the way, this problem also occurs with paper goods like books and anything to do with paper formats. Because the US uses letter size and legal, not A1/A2/A3/A4, etc like most of the world. Of course if I want to sell in the US, I have to go through the trouble, but I'm not going to pretend it's not annoying.
3
Philo 0316
B Samson [WildFyre], if you want to talk about NASA, here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter It was disintegrated because of imperial-SI error.
4
B Samson [WildFyre]
Viqueen, seems the problem isn't with the US, it's your problem. What language do you print on these boxes or papers?
2
B Samson [WildFyre]
Philo 1202, umm, did you read the entire article?
2
Viqueen
B Samson [WildFyre], the same language as when sending anything to UK or Ireland, both of which even happen to be EU countries and be able to deal with metric, thus not requiring special treatment.
2
B Samson [WildFyre]
Viqueen, no one in the US seems to have a problem with it. We use both systems equally well. A problem in the EU doesn't mean the US has a problem. Heck, we even have ammunition in mm as well as caliber.
flack
Being critical of government can be patriotism. the state is not the same as the people.
21
Liera
Deleted by comment owner
Escape
What are your thoughts about it?
3
Liera
Deleted by comment owner
Escape
I know it is, just as I know you are leaving inconsequential phrases on many cards to induce people to click on your channel.
6
Liera
Escape, please stop spamming my comment.
2
nachdenken!
Daily Hot Babes, why did you delete your comments?
6
flack
Daily Hot Babes, that's not spamming. Its asking a question. Posting 4 or 5 girly pics a day, that's more like spamming.
9
Escape
For those who missed it, his first comment was "interesting question". The second was something like that he had no right to an opinion, he was just a dude with a collection of hot babe pictures.
3
Liera
Escape, sorry but I had to report this to sola.ai
2
Escape
I'm sure your apology is extremely sincere, report all you like.
5
flack
Daily Hot Babes, You clearly live in an irony free World. Take your Tittyspam, and your weak attempt at rulebook bullying and kindly fuck off. there's a good chap.
5
Escape
Chadley, sorry for the intrusion, just tired of seeing his nonsense popping up all over the place. Although he deleted his comments, the mods can still see them.
5
Escape
I don't have a problem with patriotism, the issue is jingoism, with Trump now leading the way
6
Philo 0316
What do you think is the difference? It's hard to see the difference for me.
2
Escape
Philo 1202, patriotism is loving and supporting the goals and standards of your country, while still acknowledging its faults and shortcomings. Jingoism is aggressively supporting and excusing your country, right or wrong. At least that's what it boils down to for me. I'm sure there are a few more other isms out there
6
Hyde
Escape, is jingoism a problem, or is jingoism with trump in charge the problem? I've not heard this term before, but believe that blind support can definitely be a problem.
2
Escape
Hyde, jingoism is a problem in anyone, and he is an excellent example of it. The word has been around for a long time, I think it began with the Brits.
5
Hyde
Escape, I'm sure it has been, I guess I learned something today😊 He is an example, I believe every leader has a set of blind followers. What would the opposite be called *the blind haters*??
2
Escape
Hyde, the opposite of follower is leader, opponent, etc. But if you prefer thinking of them as haters, use it.
2
Hyde
Escape, fair point, but I think you know what I meant. If jingoism is kind of a blind support for a leader, then what would a blind hate be called?? *was that wording better?*
3
Escape
Hyde, why do you keep using the word hate? I know it's thrown around a lot, I'm not fond of it myself but people seem to enjoy using it.
2
Hyde
Escape, I used the term hate because it is the opposite of love. Love *maybe misguided love* is what enables one to do all the things you mentioned in jingoism. The stronger the feelings of love *or hate* the more difficulty one has in finding errors or mistakes in the one they are following. . I can use the term dislike if you prefer? But it seems like you don't want to answer the question so I won't pursue it further.
2
Escape
Hyde, I don't think love is necessarily a part of jingoism, there are more factors at play. So we can agree to disagree and move on.
2
kallzo
When you're being patriotic it's not for the government but for the people, and that's a good thing
7
Climax
I've never heard once of the advantages of patriotism.
9
Kevin
In my grandfather's generation questioning the government was unpatriotic, in my generation the opposite is true. Things change.I'm born in the 1970's BTW.
2
Rose 👭
Patriotism is fine. Turning it into nationalism and even jingoism is not. As being patriotic means love of your country it is definitely okay to critique the government and/or its policies if you want to see things get better.
7
Hyde
There is an "i" in teAm. It is in the A hole.
2
thelevel
The real issue is the government worshipers
12
fj_x
I think being patriotic is fine. I also think being critical is fine and can even be patriotic when the criticism is constructive. I also think there is a difference between being critical and finding fault with anything and everything just to be counter to a particular state.
9
Philo 0316
I think pride for something you didn't do is bad, including pride in where you were born.
11
DELETED USER
So are you against gay pride and all that stuff?
2
Philo 0316
Arcadius, if their pride is solely in being gay from birth, yes, that would be stupid. But are they celebrating that, or are they celebrating their life overcoming obstacles placed there because they were gay?
2
Keepvogel ❓
Being proud of a country is more than being proud of being born there, no? It's being proud of contributing to that country and to its values and being proud of seeing people around you do the same.
8
Philo 0316
Keepvogel ❓, that's fair.
2
ArnoldoDT
I think it’s stupid to be proud or feel superior because of something totally out of your control, like being born inside the borders of a particular piece of land. But being critical to the state is definitely something to be proud of and something in your control; as the state has power over every individual born in that nation, and looking for the best interest of the many is definitely a great thing, this kind patriotism is actually making your country a better one, and you can feel damn proud about that.
3
Joseph
I think of patriotism as a respect for the "nation" as opposed to the state. I define the nation as the common ideals that bring a group of people together. For the "nation" of America, some of those ideals might be freedom, personal responsibility, looking out for each other, etc. Being patriotic to your nation is a virtue, to the state it is a vice.
4
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua
It's how you should be.
2
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua
Arcadius, America made you so you have to love it.
2
DELETED USER
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua, a country cannot create a human being
2
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua
Arcadius, What country were you born in?
2
DELETED USER
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua, my mother.
2
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua
Arcadius, then you are American so you have to be this way
2
DELETED USER
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua, are you telling me what to do? That's not very American ;-)
4
Simply Epic
Internally it holds society together. Externally it tears societies apart.
4
Temihal
It's a good thing as long as it's about what you feel and think, and not about what others should think. But "loving" something doesn't make it perfect, and trying to make it better is the highest form on patriottism imo
4
DELETED USER
If by patriotism you mean respecting and not questioning authority then no.
2
Slowdowngandhi
I can't be proud of a coincidence. I appreciate where I'm coming from but that's about it. Patriotism tends to turn into nationalism and that's purely destructive. I don't trust people who call themselves patriots. Where I'm coming from these are often people who are either extreme right, openly racist and/or neo-nazis
10
snowpea
It seems everyone has a different idea of what patriotism is. I was taught that patriotism is love for the land you live in, and the people in the land, and nationalism is more love for the government. With this in mind, I consider myself a patriot.
4
Righteous Pie Loving Joshua
Yes its compleaty finem
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