Mirror, well here's the problem with the free will BS.
God's either has a plan for everyone so everything is scripted so kiss goodbye free will, or...
God gave free will to humans and now he's useless to us since... Well we've free will to do our whatever!
Except if the so called free will comes with a price tag, in that case, sorry I'll pass (since ive free will i can do that right?).
Nick Kontogouris, the fact that you are able to choose what to do doesn't exclude the fact an omniscient being knows what you will choose. Free will means that when you are presented with a choice you can make it by yourself, not that you can create choices out of nothing. You can renounce to free will by killing yourself I guess but you can't really make yourself being fully alive and functional and unable to make choices
Mirror, i really don't understand how you (or were) based that definition of what free will means, because free will in English means entirely something else.
Im sure you can Google it, if you can't i can do it for you.
Having the option to follow the route A or B i can choose to not go anywhere or simply go where i came from.
Thats my friend is genuine free will.
Nick Kontogouris, yeah but you can't wish not to have that option at all or to have an option when you don't. Look at it like a road. Sometimes you have a juncture and you choose which way to go. But you can't create junctures of your own
Mirror, well always i can create my own path by going an unpaved direction. Metaphorically speaking always.
No god necessary for doing that either, right?
My point here is we need less gods and more common sense now days.
Nick Kontogouris, the fact something is not necessary doesn't mean it is not true.
also, no, no unpaved way. if there is a choice, there is always a road for it in our example. see the going on the unpaved direction as something physically impossible like ubiquity. you can want to be both in europe and in america at the same time, but you can't
Mirror, well you're right about the existence and just like that we entered the part of discussion of defining what god is exactly so we can see if can exist in our reality a such entity and how useful could be one.
You may or may not answer that tho.
Mirror, So we reached another point that we must agree before we go further, all things have a creator including creator itself.
An entity existing just like that on its own apart from laughable poses new problems (like what the hell was doing BEFORE start messing with us)
In addition how many worlds created and for how many of them he/she/it is responsible?
And the list go on...
Mirror, an entity (God that defies universal laws or whatever) must somehow exists.
Maybe it existed in a parallel universe way before the creation of ours where laws of physics of our universe simply don't apply.
But i guess we agree at this point things get way fuzzy, we simply have no knowledge (yet)